The Afghan Whigs

Black Love is the follow-up release to Gentlemen with new drummer, Paul Buchignani. Greg Dulli, who writes all the songs, is usually seen as the frontman while John Curley and guitarist Rick McCollum are the anchors to his weathered wailing about love and heartbreak. But with Black Love, the dynamics of the band and the music has changed. They even have an appearance in the new movie, Beautiful Girls and the soundtrack. After recording the new album and producing the Ass Ponys’ upcoming album, bass player Curley manages to squirrel away from his favorite show, Cops, and talk with SLUG.

 

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SLUG: I guess the last album you guys did someone described as the personality of a “hate fucker.” Just sort of really pissed off, I guess, or confused about…

AW: I was never really pissed off or bitter about a relationship but…

SLUG: And this one, in a lot of ways, seems to be a very paranoid lover and even in some ways the music is kind of paranoid. How would you describe the two or how this one has come along?

AW: I think this one is a little more subtle maybe and musically a little more rich. We got piano in a lot of the songs and…

SLUG: Cello.

AW: Cello in a bunch of the songs. I don’t think we over did it or anything but it was more thorough from the beginning. The songs were written with those parts in mind. And last time they were written and the ideas came later for that stuff. In a couple of cases, some of them obviously started with that kind of idea, but Greg had the piano in his house for the whole time prior to getting together. [Greg] was actually writing songs on the piano.

SLUG: The music came along with it a lot easier this time.

AW: Yeah, actually this whole record from the practicing, going out on tour in July and then going to record; it has been the most fun that I think we’ve all ever had recording … yeah, it was really relaxed for the most part. We recorded live in a big room with no headphones and I think we felt like ourselves when we were doing it and not isolated in your own headphones world.

SLUG: Why do you guys come off as much more lighthearted and make jokes about yourselves and the songs that you do but your studio work is really cynical and sometimes very heavy? For you guys, is your performance a reward for all the work?

AW: Absolutely. Yeah, we work at practice too. Although, practicing for shows is a little more … actually since Paul joined the band, he’s really just jamming and stuff. So, a typical practice would be three hours of just jamming and just playing and then maybe, an hour of just running through everything. And the worse that’s being done is just learning how to listen to each other and what the other people are going to do.

SLUG: Have you guys played live with Paul yet?

AW: Yeah, we did eight shows at the end of June or early July of last summer. And then, we did a benefit in Seattle at the end of July.

SLUG: Have the dynamics changed?

AW: Oh, definitely. Cause we got a new drummer. So being the bass player, that’s a big deal for me ’cause if the bass player and the drummer aren’t playing well then everything is going to sound bad. It’s like going from someone that you’ve played with for seven or eight years; you know instinctively what they are going to do without even having to pay attention. And to go into someone new where you actually do have to pay attention and learn a whole bunch of new stuff…

SLUG: Has that sort of resurged you guys creatively at all?

AW: I just feel like it did. Just like being able to jam for a long time at practice and stuff. Paul’s a lot more versatile and does a lot more styles of music. He’s more of a musician than….

SLUG: Your past drummer was more like a friend. Not that [Steve’s] not a friend now.

AW: He was at first without getting into it. Cause I don’t want to go down that road. But Steve came from a heavy metal school of drumming. So he could play hard, he could play loud and he, I mean Steve’s a really good drummer, I don’t want to put the guy down. But Paul could do all that stuff plus turn around and play traditional jazz or all kinds of stuff.

SLUG: So do you guys all have your own side projects? I know Paul does jazz gigs and you have Cincinnati Ultrasuede Studios. What have you being doing there?

AW: I did an Ass Ponys record.

SLUG: They’re good friends of yours.

AW: Yeah [I’ve] known them for many years.

SLUG: What else have you guys been working on?

AW: That’s pretty much it, what I did. I got back from Seattle the end of September and did the Ass Ponys’ record for all of October and that pretty much took it out of me. That was three and a half months in the studio. I wasn’t ready to think for a while after that. [I’ve] got four other partners and they all did stuff, too.

SLUG: It’s smart.

AW: Yeah, it’s great. It started out as just something we wanted to do, a hobby almost and it’s become kind of a cool thing.

SLUG: And then does Rick have his own side projects?

AW: I don’t think so. He is probably the most musical one of all of us. So he’s always making four tracks and figuring out how to get weird noises out of his guitar. He’s got a piano too, so.

SLUG: And then Greg, this is pretty much his big project.

AW: Well, he’s interested in doing movies.

SLUG: And acting.

AW: Not so much acting, I don’t think anymore; it’s more like producing and directing.

SLUG: Cause he does all of your videos. Most of the videos that you guys have made, I don’t want to say all, but MTV wouldn’t play them. So what do you do with a video that no one’s going to play?

AW: Show it to your friends.

SLUG: So this time are you going to get the video on TV?

AW: I hope so. I mean, that’s the idea, obviously or why waste the money on them? It’s really up to them. It’s kind of a mysterious and frightening thing.

SLUG: What is? Not having them?

AW: The whole video MTV thing.

SLUG: Really? Well, because then all of a sudden your mega stars. Go from being unrecognized, almost completely unrecognized, to not being able to walk down the street.

AW: Well, I’ll let you know when that happens.

SLUG: Well, I think that’s part of the underground appeal is the fact that your videos didn’t get played.

AW: If you’re equating underground with commercial mediocrity or whatever, I think underground might come more from just sticking to your beliefs and just doing things your own way whether you’re going to be popular or not. Just trying to be happy with yourself, trying to do something you’re proud of and not whore yourself completely that you can’t even do it anymore.

SLUG: Well, I don’t think if you guys got commercial success that all of a sudden your fans should become mediocre.

AW: Well, I think people feel, not just with us but with all kinds of bands, that something’s not popular and you discover it and you turn your friends on to it and it’s like a little shared secret among the people that know about it. And them all of the sudden, there’s a hit and all the asshole guys at school and people that you don’t like start listening to it and … I definitely felt like that whole thing with Nirvana’s record blew up because there was all these people who knew about it, who listened to Sub Pop Records and then all of a sudden, everybody was into it. A lot of people feel pretty close to their music and don’t want to share it with people that they necessarily wouldn’t be friends with. So, I’m sure there would be that but what are you going to do?

SLUG: So your success, not yours personally, but the band, seems to be tied to the fact that you guys are still on the underground. Are you guys tryin’ to maintain that?

AW: I don’t think we’re consciously trying to maintain that. I think a lot of that comes from the fact that we feel pretty strongly about how we want to be perceived. There’s just so much stuff out there that rubs us the wrong way that we want to be different. And a lot of times that goes against the grain of high power marketing and commercialism and stuff. That’s not to say we wouldn’t enjoy, like…

SLUG: A hit.

AW: Yeah. Plus we would want to do it on our terms. We’re not going to do a bunch of stuff that makes us feel so gross it won’t be fun to do anymore. That’s where most of it comes from is just like maintaining stuff that we think is important.

SLUG: So what have you been listening to a lot lately, music wise.

AW: Wow, the Ass Ponys record, and the Wolverton Brothers from Cincinnati. I like to listen to my friends tapes and stuff. As far as like … man I can never remember. I always get put on the spot like this. I should just make notes before I do this stuff.

SLUG: You don’t have to. Then it becomes really contrived.

AW: Yeah. I watch more TV than I listen to records.

SLUG: What’s your favorite TV show?

AW: Cops. We played in Cleveland and somebody hit me in the face with a cup of beer while we were playing. And later on, as I was leaving, one of the cops guarding the door said something to me about it; just kind of made a joke and it turned out he had been on Cops and I’d seen the episode and stuff. So, it was like a celebrity meeting.

SLUG: I can’t figure out why that stuff is so appealing. Those shows, watching other people get in trouble. Do you know what I mean?

AW: Yeah, I don’t know. It’s a voyeuristic thing. I used to work at a newspaper as a photographer and I really enjoyed that aspect of the job. Like, being able to just sort of hangout behind the police line. You get to see how it’s done.

SLUG: But don’t you feel sometimes that you’re sort of invading a little?

AW: After a while I did and I don’t know if I could do it now. There are some things that I did that I had to do that I didn’t feel too good about.

SLUG: Do you even feel that way watching Cops? I do, I know I do.

AW: No, not really there’s worse stuff on TV than that.

SLUG: I personally like reruns.

AW: I like reruns, too.

SLUG: Well, what’s your first music memory?

AW: I guess getting a little cheap tape recorder and making a tape off the radio with “Changes” by David Bowie on it. I was pretty little. I don’t know in grade school probably whenever that came out, it must have been first or second grade for me.

SLUG: What would you be doing if you weren’t doing this?

AW: Wow, I don’t know. Probably just working as a photographer, I think. I guess I would be doing something like that maybe and still just playing music on the side. Cause that’s what I always figured I would do.

SLUG: Do you ever think that people just go “god what I really want to do is be a bass player.” You know, unless you’re like in a funk band and how did that end up coming about for you.

AW: I heard The Who.

SLUG: You heard The Who. I was thinking that this morning what I was listening to you guys that there is a lot of Roger Daltrey, and Pete Townshend and The Who in there.

AW: Yeah, we all like them and we all listen to them. There’s worse people to be compared to than that.

SLUG: I think so. My friend thinks that their the originators of punk. I don’t know if I agree but I think it’s an interesting opinion.

AW: It could be, I mean Keith Moon was pretty punk rock.

Read more from the SLUG archives:
A Few Words from Spacehog
Black Diamond