Black Country, New Road’s Charlie Wayne On Continuity
Music
The cloud hanging over Black Country, New Road has finally lifted, or has been torn away in one swift grab, with the release of their third, electric album Forever Howlong. Only a short time after The Quietus writer John Doran dubbed the group “the best in the entire world,” they were thrown into structural turmoil following the exit of their vocalist Isaac Wood. And yet, the group never stopped writing or honing their sound and direction. While touring for the last few years without playing any of Ants From Up There and For The First Time, they’ve proven themselves to be impeccable musicians whose ability to put on showstopping performances doesn’t rely on a full and complete body of work.
Ahead of their set at Kilby Block Party 6, SLUG had the opportunity to chat with BC,NR percussionist Charlie Wayne about touring, the continuity in the band’s approach and identity, parasocial relationships and playoff basketball.
SLUG: Your phone was labeled as “Elton John’s iPhone” when you joined the Zoom call, and I wanted to ask you about that.
Wayne: I’ve been having an enormous ego trip throughout this entire tour and I think that it’s affected some of the relations in the band, but I think fundamentally it spells extremely positively for my upcoming solo projects that are gonna be pretty big.
SLUG: It’s good to lead ego first, usually.
Wayne: Yeah, I think so. I think the music will come.
SLUG: You just started your tour and are currently in Chicago. How is that city treating you guys?
Wayne: I love it here. I think it’s one of my favorite cities in the states. It just kind of rules. We were in New York before, which obviously is amazing, and we had a fair amount of time in New York this time around, … I think, after five days, it can be quite an intense place. Chicago is a really nice alternative to that.
SLUG: New York prides itself on being intense and inhospitable and you just kind of have to accept that, I guess?
Wayne: Yeah, and it literally is both of those things in spades.
SLUG: Is today the start of your tour, or was that a couple nights ago?
Wayne: We did two nights at Bowery Ballroom in New York, and then we actually did a show in Mexico last week. So in a sense, this is sort of the third show of the North American tour, I suppose. We haven’t been back to London since leaving.
SLUG: Is this tour going be structured in a more traditional way, now that you have an album of music under your belt that you’re willing to play, considering you retired the other two albums?
Wayne: It’s sort of strange really because with the Bush Hall stuff, it’s not really so much of an album. It was songs we were performing live, and we are still gonna play a couple of those tracks. But you’re right, we do kind of just approach things from an irregular standpoint as a band where we did permanently retire those two albums. We toured the Bush Hall stuff so extensively that we’re putting that slightly on the back burner and focusing on performing this album, because it’s kind of what’s interesting to us at the moment. I think that we’re trying to [figure out] how to kind of exist with both those things, whilst touring stuff that feels interesting and exciting to us every evening.
SLUG: I know that the writing process to create playable songs that you could put out on stage was really hard work. Is that something that you still feel partial to as a band? Are you wanting to do that going forward?
Wayne: It’s important to take time with stuff, and we just always kind of operate on what seems to be the most exciting thing in the moment, and that can obviously lead to difficult decisions down the line when you’re confronted with having overindulged in songs that you like and want to play but now you’re tired of [those songs], but people still want to hear them. Fundamentally, it’s six people operating in a group together, and we’re chatting about and figuring stuff out on the fly. There’s no overarching plan. We’re just extremely lucky to be here and doing what kind of feels natural.
SLUG: Is it nice to have a full album of music to play? Before that, you guys like put an album together of the live stuff, but that wasn’t like an album in a formal way.
Wayne: You’re completely right. The Live at Bush Hall stuff was sick for playing, for performance and getting the band back on the road, and it felt like true expression of where the band was at, even if it’s [not] necessarily musically cohesive or practically done on the fly, which I think has a huge amount of creative merit. But there’s something really important about sitting in a room together for a year and creating something that feels cohesive and feels like a true representation of your identity at that point. Performing that is extremely nice; it feels like you’re playing music to an audience where you’re like, “For now, for this moment, this is it. This is what we’ve taken the time to arrive here,” which is cool.
SLUG: I can’t even really imagine what it would be like to have to play largely untested songs on the road so immediately. I’m happy you guys get the opportunity to do a normal tour.
Wayne: It does feel almost spookily regular. It’s also strange — I mean, we’re a band doing our third album. We’re in the place where we should sort of be, I guess. [There’s] not any kind of linear trajectory to any of it, but at least it doesn’t feel like we’re playing catch up.
SLUG: I think you can in the weeds about where a band is or where any project is in its lifetime, especially the journey that you guys have gone through.
Wayne: To be honest, it’s a fairly pompous thing to say. We’re extremely fucking lucky to be doing any of this. Literally. That certainly isn’t lost on us — just being like, “Well, we’re on our third album and it’s good to be here.” Like, no, we are extremely lucky and grateful to be here. It’s nuts to still be doing this. It’s kind of spooky how none of it feels like it’s in constant peril anymore.
SLUG: The vocals are split between three band members — Tyler Hyde, Georgia Ellery and May Kershaw — and I want to know where that decision originated from. Do you feel like that change has been well-received by your audience too?
Wayne: It’s a good question. It happened for obvious reasons, because Isaac [Wood] left and there was a hole which needed filling. We decided it would be more interesting and less stressful for whoever was gonna be filling the boots to just divide it up and have the parts be representative of the whole, which is how it was instrumentally anyway. So it just seemed to follow to have the vocals do the same thing, to some extent. I think it was difficult to then go from Bush Hall where the action of the process was the throughline, to do something creatively where you’re still using that same form, but there is a requirement to create something cohesive. I think also because [Ants From Up Here] had a very strong narrative throughline and personality-driven voice, there’s a difference there, a conscious feeling of like, “Oh you should be approaching it in a way which is kind of consistent with what we’ve done before.” …
In terms of how the audience has received [it], it’s how we expected it to be received. Some people think that it’s cool and some people think that it’s fucking rubbish. It is what it is. When you’ve created something that people find super compelling and there’s one key element that’s no longer present, then of course people aren’t gonna like it, that’s just gonna happen. Also because the music is not only different in terms of the absence of Isaac’s voice, but also the fact that it’s not as musically sour. [That’s] not to say this album is necessarily upbeat, even though there are definitely moments which are pretty whimsical and light. There are some parts of it which are way more intense, sad and emotional than any music that we’ve made. It just depends on the way in which you approach it. That’s not to tread down on anyone who doesn’t like the album or who anyone who prefers the other stuff that we’ve done, that’s fair enough. It’s just different — there’s literally nothing wrong with that at all.
SLUG: Western audiences love a sad frontman and now you guys are taking a leap that people are surprised by, which is working as an ensemble in a lot of ways.
Wayne: Which is strange, because musically it’s always been super ensemble-driven. I don’t know what the answer to that is.
SLUG: It’s the existence of the band as it is now. It would almost be a waste of time to think too hard about it.
Wayne: Yeah, exactly, because the next album’s gonna be totally different anyway. Some people felt as though [Isaac Wood’s departure] should have spelled the end for a bit, which I think is kind of stupid you know?
SLUG: It is a little bit weird to call for that. Referencing Kilby Block Party, you aren’t gonna do the Joy Division to New Order thing, right? They did it, but they also did a whole different thing anyway. I still feel there’s a lot of continuity in your guys’ work.
Wayne: I think if we started making, like, techno, then maybe we’d change the band name.
SLUG: If you invented a new genre.
Wayne: Yeah, exactly. If we made a brand new genre of music, then maybe we’d create a new band name.I think the one thing that audiences really enjoy is narrative and narrative is always informed by stuff which has come before … It’s so dumb to compare yourself to these extremely successful, very famous bands. It’s a whole different world.
SLUG: You talk about narratives, and you are a band that has a very fervent online audience. There has to be some cloud of parasocial relationships over the group sometimes. Do you feel that infiltrating at all in the way you think about the band?
Wayne: It affects the individuals rather than the band as a whole. Obviously, those two things are very closely related, and that’s not lost on me at all. It’s not as though the band as a group makes decisions based on what’s going on online. I think, as individuals we engage with it however we want and that kind of fluctuates. I definitely have been guilty of paying attention and then having to stop because it can be crazy. People exist online in a way which is so different to how people are [in real life]. It’s like a meme of guy on Twitter that says someone’s really shit and then that guy in real life is like, “Hey! How’s it going?”
The last year or so was strange, because the band wasn’t really touring, and so the only way in which the band existed was online in some ways. And on the run up to the album coming out, the band only exists in that space. The band is big online, but we’re just people and it’s this kind of weird microcosm of the world. Most people have no idea who the band are, but online it’s much more of a thing. We’re just living your everyday life. So yeah, it’s kind of weird that it only exists in this way, which is obviously parasocial. It’s fine and normal, we’re just kind of getting on. It’s less intense [than] it could otherwise appear.
SLUG: It’s normal in the way that it happens and it’s strange in the way that people think. It’s almost like K-pop fans sometimes. I don’t know if you guys are getting fan edits like those those groups are, but the command of knowledge [of the band] is so high.
Wayne: Yes, but it is strange. I was reading something from a band who are circling around the same sort of scene, where they were like, “What’s changed in your life since, becoming a band, whe[n] it’s your job?” and the answer was, “Oh, well, everything in every single way,” which I think is nuts because obviously it’s extremely lucky that this is our jobs. Very little of my life is [this band] other than the fact that it is my job. Occasionally Lewis [Evans] will get recognized on the street because he’s kind of tall. Nothing really changes other than we have this weird job, which is very cool.
SLUG: You’ve got to shrug your shoulders a little bit though, right? It’s not like you’re getting paparazzi or anything — in a digital sense, yes. But it also reminds me of the Tyler, The Creator Tweet about getting cyberbullied: Just turn the computer off.
Wayne: It’s a really, really strange thing and it’s always kind of fun until it’s really not. Until someone’s like, “You should kill yourself because you’re making whimsical indie music.”
SLUG: I wanted to ask about working with James Ford, because everything you guys do is collaborative, but how was working with him? Do you feel like you learned anything from that experience?
Wayne: He was amazing. I know that things are normal until they’re not, but that was genuinely a moment where I was like, “Oh fuck. Wow,” ‘cause he is someone who has produced albums that I have loved for the entire time that I’ve enjoyed music as a person who has a music taste. Knowing that he was into the band and wanted to produce the record was sort of nuts, but aside from that, we were a bit hesitant to go with him at the start because he had this sort of reputation.
It wasn’t as though this album was a big statement like, “This is our step into the great unknown. We’re gonna become a massive band and work with a producer.” We went with it because he just was a cool guy who didn’t have an ego and he is really, really technically good at what he does. We really needed someone like that to guide us through what was going to be a technical recording process.
SLUG: It’s a very cleanly produced record. That term is sometimes negative when it comes to production, but in terms of what you guys do, having everything be so spontaneous, but to have it come out so clean is phenomenal.
Wayne: I think that’s kind of what this record called for …It’s characterful. If there [are] foibles in it — they’re definitely present, but it’s meticulous.
SLUG: Yeah, there’s an inevitability to those things, right? Especially with big,orchestrated music, that’s what makes it more magical and then that translates into the live performances, too. I’ve always loved listening to albums that can’t be played as recorded.
Wayne: Yeah, which is a hard thing too because this band’s always been a live band. Luke Mark plays like, three guitars on at least a couple of tracks, so there’s no way of replicating that. You figure it out.
SLUG: Are you excited about Kilby Block Party?
Wayne: We played in Salt Lake two years ago, but this is our first ever festival in the state. I was listening to The Blue Album yesterday. I’m very rarely super extremely excited to see anyone at a festival, but I was listening to it being like, “Oh my God, they’re just gonna play the whole thing.”
SLUG: Are you a Denver Nuggets fan?
Wayne: So the reason why we all wore Denver Nuggets stuff is because we were in Denver when they won the championship. We all have been enjoying watching the NBA — Luke in particular. This year we’re really gunning for the Kicks.
SLUG: Dark horse.
Wayne: Dark horse, man.
SLUG: They just put the whip to the Celtics last night in a way that I’ve never seen in my life.
Wayne: They nearly killed Jason Tatum, it’s crazy.
SLUG: Anything else you wanna add before I let you go?
Wayne: It’s a crazy time in your country.
SLUG: A pretty bad one.
Wayne: This is about as gnarly as I think it gets and it’s a bit worrisome, to put it extremely lightly, but I’m very happy to be here.
SLUG: There was a while in the U.S. when we were poking fun at the UK. But we have never been worse as a country.
Wayne: It’s never been so over for you guys. We’re over in the UK realizing things do suck, but like, things could suck way worse.
Charlie Wayne, along with the rest of Black Country, New Road, will be performing at Kilby Block Party on Saturday, May 17 at 4:50 on the Kilby Stage. Get your tickets here.
Read more interviews with national artists:
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